Curse

Lord Feathers · Aug 12, 2007, 07:38 AM // 07:38

OKay something about this post has been bothering me for awhile now. Here is a screen shot of Hard Mode, me and a mob of heroes / henchies and I'm probably using a build people would bash me for using and call me a noob. There are plenty of ways to beat things people !

http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/592/gw110fu7.jpg

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Deleet · Aug 12, 2007, 08:05 AM // 08:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zinger314

That's a satisfactory build (except Mending, of course) for a mission as easy as Sunjiang District. (I can beat it in less than 10-15 minutes, yes, it's easy.)

There was no need to critize that build.

Elite missions are another story.

Are you saying, that we shouldn't critisize builds unless it is strictly necessary?

If they rest of the team was running that kinda shit, it would be necessary. Even with an easy mission.

Besides, you can improve beyond necessity, even with PUGs.

Darkobra · Aug 12, 2007, 08:19 AM // 08:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrFuzzles

Just a few days ago I got kicked from the final factions mission because I insisted on using wild blow on my dervish <.< Apparently it's "useless" because it makes you lose all adrenaline and chilling victory is the "best" dervish attack.

I'm crying. Whether it's with laughter or empathy, I can't figure out yet. Because we all know how heavily a dervish relies on adrenaline... If I was there and I saw them kick you for that, I'd have left myself.

Voltar · Aug 12, 2007, 08:59 AM // 08:59

[QUOTE=Lord Feathers]OKay something about this post has been bothering me for awhile now. Here is a screen shot of Hard Mode, me and a mob of heroes / henchies and I'm probably using a build people would bash me for using and call me a noob. There are plenty of ways to beat things people !/QUOTE]

that's not a bad build at all. i'm guessing you were also using an ele-damage bow and doubled up on your own interrupts just to make sure you nailed hibernation. i would only think that the "hardest" part of that mission for that group would've been the mesmer area but smooth sailing for the rest.

tight build, bro (though i'm not a barrage fan). i'd be as harsh on ranger builds as zinger is on necro builds. well...almost as harsh.

a bad build would be barrage + ignite arrows...empathy and conjure phantasm and 0 points in expertise. if i'm getting my posts correctly, this is the lame monk hero post and not the lame necro fow build, right?

this would be the ranger toolbar to match that monk hero:
12 wilderness, 12 marksmanship, 3 beast mastery

[skill]tiger's fury[/skill][skill]pin down[/skill][skill]storm chaser[/skill][skill]charm animal[/skill][skill]penetrating attack[/skill][skill]determined shot[/skill][skill]concussion shot[/skill][skill]barbed trap[/skill]

see any problems there (namely with 0 expertise)? (maybe i exagerrated a little)

edit: i should say though that i hope you had only leftover points in inspiration or you were managing to use leech to compensate for low expertise in a fancy way. regardless, dragon's lair is one of the easier hm missions. i think i tab/spacebarred my way to glint, then tab/spacebarred + 2 distracting shots on glint herself. i take full advantage of hero/hench acceptance of dead-weight for the 8th party member whenever possible.

Shanaeri Rynale · Aug 12, 2007, 12:52 PM // 12:52

There are a few types of elitism I see in game and in the community.
1. Personal elitism
The outward expression of a belief(note, not fact) that you are a better player than XXX e.g XXX said this they fail/suck etc etc
2. Clique elitism
The outward expression of a belief(note, not fact) that the people you play with are better players than YYY e.g YYY said this they fail/suck etc etc
3. Achievement elitism
The outward expression of a belief(note, not fact) that you are a better player than ZZZ, because you managed some feat/title/got more money than ZZZ
4. Build Elitism
The build(and therefore then person) sucks because the person used what is called 'ghay(hate that term, but oh well)' build, or maybe the build they used was'nt quite optimal.
5. Tactics Elitism
The tactics the person/group uses, is so inferior to yours, the person/group should be called a noob, put down etc at every opportunity.
6. Team Elitism
Anyone who uses a team composition other than yours is clearly inferior abd should be told as often as possible.

These are all the example I can think of at the moment, and being honest we can all hold our hands up to at least thinking one of these at some point in time.

However there seems be a rising group in the community that either delight in the above, or view themselves as above it all on a regular basis.

I'm not sure where the desire to be this way comes from, maybe jealousy, maybe insecurity, maybe a desire to join in the clique in fear that their attention may come to them. Dunno. What the effect does have however is that new comers to the game, casual players or those who just like to take things slow and enjoy the view feel increasingly isolated and made to feel second rate.

And I think that has to be bad for the game overall.

Very often in a pug, the person scrutinising the build had not built up enough trust within the team for the guy to chance his build. It's not about the build in situations like those it's about respect. To them, you are as random as they are to you. The suggestions above 'have you tried, xxx, or I found yyy works well) are excellent ideas and at least gets your view across and they learn nothing.

Respect the person, and you'll get a lot further than you would by raging or name calling. There is a right way to offer people advice is what i'm saying, not assume they are idiots but listen to what they have to say etc.

Although I don't pug all the time, I do enjoy doing so and encourage my guild to help out whenever they can.

Pugs can be a great source of fun(even unintended), if one goes into them with the correct attitude. In my experience, playing with super leet teams all the time actually kinda make one lazy, going with an anything can happen and usually does pug sharpens your play as quite simply you never know what they are going to do next. Will they pull 3 mobs all at once, will the wammo have healing hands and mending, will the monks be both prot monks with heal etc.

This simple chaotic randomness, is what makes pugging fun and a challenge.

Of course there is a time to be pixel, attribute, tactics and skill perfect and that should be the obective of a player, but not at the expense of others I feel. Sometimes I think we focus too much on the result and not on the journey.

CHunterX · Aug 12, 2007, 01:27 PM // 13:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gregslot

After people kicking me out of the group at The Deep because i used Glyph of Renewal and Meteor Shower i gave up doing anything that did not involved henchies or heroes.

GoR + MS would cause them to break aggro and run, possibly losing hate on the tank, at least for the first rooms. Its safer to just Arcane Echo, MS, Mark of Rodgart, SF, and then MS again, after the first MS has finished. Thats why they don't want you to use GoR.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curse You

You clearly failed to see how useful that AoE damage would be against all those foes you have to fight...

Also, doesn't Shiro have something like 6000 health?

Wild Blow dominates Shiro like no other. Honestly, I don't know if you are being sarcastic.

MrFuzzles · Aug 12, 2007, 01:51 PM // 13:51

Obviously sarcasm.
Protip: When someone uses the term "clearly", there is a big chance it's in jest. The 6000 hp reference was also in regards to chilling victory only triggering on foes which have less health than you, which would make it rather undesirable for 90% of the fight with shiro, assuming I have 100% hp when he starts setting off impossible odds.

Burst Cancel · Aug 12, 2007, 02:10 PM // 14:10

If you want to PuG, you will often have to cookie-cutter. However, I don't consider this a bad thing. You have to remember that cookie-cutter builds exist because they are effective (reasoning: ineffective team builds do not become popular, therefore popular team builds must be effective). You also have to remember that most players aren't incredibly good at this game. Therefore, cookie-cutter builds are designed at a nexus of maximum efficiency and ease-of-use. Are there more effective builds? Definitely, but they likely take more skill to play. That's not good for PuGs, when nobody has any clue whether any of the other players can even tell their heads from their asses. A cookie-cutter build is a proven setup for achieving a certain objective as efficiently as possible within the confines of PuG player skill.

I follow the system of the party leader determining the group makeup (this could be force of habit from GvG). This reduces friction between party members, because each person is given a bar, and they either run that bar, or they find another group. It's efficient, the group is ready to go almost immediately, and there's no bickering about skill choices or anything else. When I join an existing PuG, the first thing I ask is, "What do you want me to run?" The second is, "What is the team build?" If the bar they give me is within reason, I'm perfectly fine running that bar. If it seems ridiculous, I'll ask a specific question about why a certain skill is necessary. If I don't get a satisfactory answer to any of the above questions, I leave. I'm here to play the game, not to spawn drama over skillbars.

Lord Feathers · Aug 12, 2007, 05:01 PM // 17:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shanaeri Rynale

There are a few types of elitism I see in game and in the community.
1. Personal elitism
The outward expression of a belief(note, not fact) that you are a better player than XXX e.g XXX said this they fail/suck etc etc
2. Clique elitism
The outward expression of a belief(note, not fact) that the people you play with are better players than YYY e.g YYY said this they fail/suck etc etc
3. Achievement elitism
The outward expression of a belief(note, not fact) that you are a better player than ZZZ, because you managed some feat/title/got more money than ZZZ
4. Build Elitism
The build(and therefore then person) sucks because the person used what is called 'ghay(hate that term, but oh well)' build, or maybe the build they used was'nt quite optimal.
5. Tactics Elitism
The tactics the person/group uses, is so inferior to yours, the person/group should be called a noob, put down etc at every opportunity.
6. Team Elitism
Anyone who uses a team composition other than yours is clearly inferior abd should be told as often as possible.

These are all the example I can think of at the moment, and being honest we can all hold our hands up to at least thinking one of these at some point in time.

However there seems be a rising group in the community that either delight in the above, or view themselves as above it all on a regular basis.

I'm not sure where the desire to be this way comes from, maybe jealousy, maybe insecurity, maybe a desire to join in the clique in fear that their attention may come to them. Dunno. What the effect does have however is that new comers to the game, casual players or those who just like to take things slow and enjoy the view feel increasingly isolated and made to feel second rate.

And I think that has to be bad for the game overall.

Very often in a pug, the person scrutinising the build had not built up enough trust within the team for the guy to chance his build. It's not about the build in situations like those it's about respect. To them, you are as random as they are to you. The suggestions above 'have you tried, xxx, or I found yyy works well) are excellent ideas and at least gets your view across and they learn nothing.

Respect the person, and you'll get a lot further than you would by raging or name calling. There is a right way to offer people advice is what i'm saying, not assume they are idiots but listen to what they have to say etc.

Although I don't pug all the time, I do enjoy doing so and encourage my guild to help out whenever they can.

Pugs can be a great source of fun(even unintended), if one goes into them with the correct attitude. In my experience, playing with super leet teams all the time actually kinda make one lazy, going with an anything can happen and usually does pug sharpens your play as quite simply you never know what they are going to do next. Will they pull 3 mobs all at once, will the wammo have healing hands and mending, will the monks be both prot monks with heal etc.

This simple chaotic randomness, is what makes pugging fun and a challenge.

Of course there is a time to be pixel, attribute, tactics and skill perfect and that should be the obective of a player, but not at the expense of others I feel. Sometimes I think we focus too much on the result and not on the journey.

* Claps Hands *

That pretty much sums up about everything. Good way to get the point across and nice to see someone else has also noticed the change in this community as well. You could also merge this thread with about 3 others I'm seeing in Riverside. The arguments revolve around the same issues or causes of those issues.

Buster · Aug 12, 2007, 05:09 PM // 17:09

People forget when they go into GVG and HoH that it takes a successful team to win. So now matter how good some claim to be it takes a team effort to be successful in pvp. This also applies to pve. Without a decent pve team you are not going far into the mission no matter how good you are.

This elitism is all in people's heads. Everytime I see people in the game claim to be all that I just walk away and laugh to myself.